Dining out with kids doesn’t have to be a disaster, and, no, you don’t have to relegate yourself to “family-friendly” chains with terrible service and even worse food. We like to eat out, and we do it too often for our own good. While we’re fortunate in our community to enjoy restaurants that feature local produce, grass-fed meats and wild-caught seafoods, it still puts a pinch in the pocket book. I talk myself into it, calling it “research” for Nourished Kitchen. Don’t get me wrong: plenty of good recipes on the site have been inspired in some way by dishes from my favorite restaurants (like pan-fried Brussels sprouts with piima cream), but really, I just like to eat out. And like any devotee of attachment parenting, my husband and I tend to avoid sitters in favor of bringing our child with us nearly everywhere just as we’ve done since the day he was born. So in those five years of eating out with a baby turned toddler turned big kid in tow, we’ve garnered a few tips that make dining out with kids not only an experience that fosters their real food education, but also a pleasure.
1. Choose a nice restaurant and linger over your food. Really.
I love good food. Really good. Artfully prepared. Carefully tended. And as my husband knows only too well, I’d simply rather not eat than eat some mishmash of flavors slopped together from boxes and bags by a pimply teen in the back of a chain restaurant. Yeah, I’m that chick. I’m picky. A food snob. There, I said it. Now you know for sure what you suspected all along.
So when I take my family out to eat, we typically eat at family-owned place and we don’t avoid the upscale restaurants. We appreciate good food and teach our child to do the same. And while typical advice on dining out with kids warns you to avoid up-scale restaurants in favor of those with drive-thru windows, cartoon characters and skeeball, I’d disagree. Instead, teach your child to love and revel in the pleasure of real food and good dining. Save your money and dine out less often so you can dine better. Even children can learn to appreciate the good food at a nice restaurant; moreover, they can also learn to linger over their food and enjoy long, multi-course suppers too. Everyone can appreciate good food.
2. Discuss restaurant etiquette before you leave home.
Part of the reason children behave poorly is because they haven’t yet been taught to behave properly, let alone enjoyed an opportunity to practice proper behavior. Sitting still, spine erect, hands folded over a napkin in your lap is not natural behavior. Not for children and, I dare say, not for adults either. These are cultivations of our culture – social expectations. And no one is born knowing that, no, you don’t brush your hair with your fondue fork and, yes, you do have to patiently listen as the waitstaff runs through the specials before you place your order. These behaviors are taught. So save yourself the frustration and embarrassment of good behavior gone awry, by clearly explaining your expectations to your child before you leave home. Even small children, as young as two or three, can understand the basic premises if you take the time cuddle them in your lap, look them in the eye and explain your expectations in terms they can understand.
Before we leave for a good restaurant, and as we pull on our shoes and coats, my husband and I talk with our son. We explain what a privilege it is to dine at a nice restaurant. We discuss that a good meal takes good time and that he may become bored, and that that’s okay. We talk about how it can feel frustrating to sit in your chair when you really want to run around, and why it’s important that you do so. We talk about pleases and thank yous and how polite behavior can earn you the respect of the waitstaff and the privilege of going out again. No bribes. No threats. Just clear expectations with clear explanations.
3. Arrive at the restaurant early, when few other patrons are seated.
Reserve the your table for the earliest time available, usually around 5:00 or 5:30. Few other restaurant goers will have arrived that early, meaning that should an errant meltdown occur or should your little one’s voice grow a little to loud with excitement, there will be fewer people to disturb and disrupt. Moreover, a quiet restaurant offers fewer distractions, meaning your child won’t be quite as tempted to make funny faces at the cranky woman in the next booth over.
Reserving an early table also ensures that you have the opportunity to enjoy a leisurely dining experience, before your children begin to lose those hard-won good manners as bedtime approaches and the restaurant fills with other patrons. Just the other night my husband and I took our young son out for supper and, as we love to do, we enjoyed a long and leisurely supper. We arrived at the restaurant at 5:15 and left at 7:30 with plenty of time to enjoy a long, multi-course dinner, but we left just as the other patrons began filing in for their suppers and a good half-hour before we typically begin bedtime routines.
4. If possible, sit outside or near an easy exit.
If you’re observing tip #3 for dining out with kids, and you arrive to the restaurant plenty early in the evening, chances are you have your choice of tables. If possible, choose a table with an easy exit. No, you don’t need the best table in the house; you just need to escape in an instant and with minimal upset should tempers flare. Meltdowns happen. Moods go funky. Even the most well-behaved child (or adult) might lose it, so always be prepared to make a quick exit.
If the weather allows, consider sitting outside on the patio. Not only is it refreshing to dine outdoors with plenty of clean air and warm sunshine, but it also offers plenty of interest for a small child. Children will enjoy the opportunity to observe the clouds, listen to the birds and play games of observation like I Spy. Some of the best patio dining is well-situated away from busy streets and intersections so that children, who grow antsy as they await the next course, might be free to take a short walk to exercise their legs. The outdoor dining area of one of our favorite restaurants occupies a small corner in an otherwise expansive courtyard, and I can send my son to run around the courtyard at a far enough distance that he doesn’t disturb fellow diners, but close enough that I can keep an eye on him.
5. Give your kid a little freedom.
While you’re at it, illustrate your trust in your child by allowing him or her an extra bit of freedom. By showing your child that not only do expect them to follow standard restaurant etiquette, but that you also trust them to do so, you instill in him or her a sense of great duty and responsibility. When we’re treated with love, appreciation and respect, we rise to the expectation of others and of ourselves. This is particularly true of children. So if your child wishes to visit the lobby, let her. If your child wants to engage in a conversation with bartender or ask the restaurant owner a question, let him.
Remember, the restaurant is otherwise quiet and empty the earlier you go, and the staff may have a few moments to spare; do not, however, misunderstand this tip to mean that the staff is responsible for entertaining or babysitting your child. When we eat out at one of our favorite restaurants, we often let our child sit on a bench by the door (within our line of sight). He only sits out for three or four minutes at a time before the heady joy of reveling in his new-found sense of freedom wears off and he rejoins us at the table, but the fact that we allowed him that freedom without question illustrates our trust in his ability to manage his own behavior and that means an awful lot to him, and to any child.
6. Bring something quiet, small and special to occupy them.
I’m not a fan of gameboys at the table, of piles of dolls, of noisy toys, but bringing a pack of crayons and a notepad or a single quiet “special occasion” toy can help even the smallest children withstand the boredom of waiting for one course to finish and another to begin. Wait until your child becomes bored, before you bring it to the table.
7. Make sure the staff brings your child’s food with the rest of the main courses.
One of the biggest mistakes both parents and servers make is asking for the child’s meal to be brought out first. If your child’s meal arrives while you and your spouse are just beginning your salads, his or her patience will wear thin far before you can even order dessert. He’ll have taken his fill, leaving an excruciating hour of mealtime remaining while you uncomfortably power-down your main course all the while bickering over table manners. Instead, order an appetizer and serve your child a small portion to help satiate that gnawing bit of hunger in the pit of their bellies until the main course arrives. Share your soup. Share your salad. The point is to appetize, not to fill.
When the main course arrives, your child will still be hungry, but not overtly so, and will be able to enjoy a full dinner in due time. Moreover, this teaches your child two things: 1) the world and your life doesn’t revolve around his or her whims and 2) the standard routine of dining out which typically includes an starter, a salad or soup, a main course and dessert.
8. Don’t order from the children’s menu.
You’ve read me rant before about deplorable children’s menus, and the need to redefine them. Even otherwise good restaurants with thoughtful cuisine offer boring and flat children’s menus: buttered noodles, cheeseburgers, chicken fingers. Blech! Children learn to love what they’re exposed to. If you never offer your child anything but buttered noodles and chicken fingers, he’ll never learn to love anything else. He’ll miss the opportunity to enjoy the nuances of a robust and silky demi-glace, or the texture of frisée lettuce or the wonderful umami flavor of salmon roe.
When your child is very young with a small appetite, simply ask for a separate plate and serve her a little bit of your meal much in the same vein and principle as baby-led weaning. As your child, and his appetite grows, explain the menu and suggest items from the starter or soups menu. Portions tend to be small, and thus affordable – sometimes rivaling the prices of those dreaded chicken fingers on the kid’s menu. By encouraging our son to sample foods from the starter menu, he’s developed a love of lamb carpaccio with pomegranate gastrique, raw oysters, escargots in butter and garlic, moules frites and mini lamb chops. Consider the privilege of eating out an opportunity to exercise your son or daughter’s tastebuds.
9. Allow your child a cocktail, or an after-dinner drink.
Eating out is a special treat, or it should be. And while I rarely enjoy a glass of wine at home, except when we have dinner guests, I like to treat myself to a glass or quartino when we visit a restaurant. It’s a treat, and it feels special. We want our child to learn to love good food and that special feeling of enjoying it. Our son likes to order a cocktail, nothing more than soda water and fruit juice, but it makes him feel special, and lucky. Since juice is a very rare treat in our household, ordering a cocktail at a restaurant helps our son to know that eating in a restaurant is special, indeed. Do not, however, fall for sodas, soft drinks and virgin cocktails that are loaded with refined sugar and high fructose corn syrup. All that good work you spent explaining restaurant etiquette to your child: worthless. It’s no match for the wreck created by refined sugars on a little body’s developing metabolism.
10. Share your food and (gasp!) drink.
The only way to encourage your child to develop a love of good food is share your love of good food with your child. Offer your daughter a bite of your steak, a spoonful of your soup. How will she know what she likes and what she doesn’t if she’s not allowed the opportunity to try it? Let your child enjoy a sip of wine. One sip won’t hurt anybody, and it will help to, overtime, remove the alcohol’s mystique and replace it with hard-won appreciation. From the time my child was two years old, I’d dip my pinky finger into my glass of wine and allow him a taste. Now that he’s bigger, I give him a sip with dinner if expresses an interest in trying it. This gives us the opportunity to discuss food, wine and flavor.
11. Engage your child in conversation and food education.
Engage your child in conversation and use dining out with your kids as an opportunity to exercise a bit of food education. It’s easy, when you’re out with your spouse, to become fully engaged in a conversation that excludes your child. You’ll talk politics, you’ll interrupt your child without even thinking about it (though you surely warn him not to interrupt you!). No one enjoys being ignored at the dinner table and you certainly wouldn’t ignore any other dinner guest, so don’t ignore your child. More specifically, engage your child in conversation. Give him a taste of that wine, then ask him what flavors he tastes and how he thinks it was made. You might be surprised by your child’s astute observations. Describe how a dish is prepared, or where a certain vegetable on the plate grows and in what season it thrives. By engaging your child in conversation, you can make the food and the experience of dining out that much more interesting.
12. Relax a little, and tip well.
Relax a little. Nothing goes perfectly. You might follow every tip and find that your child throws a tantrum, or still refuses to eat what she’s ordered. It’s okay. Do your best, and because you’ve followed these tips you’ve arrived early enough and are near enough to an exit that you minimize any potential disruption to other diners. Don’t forget to tip well. No, that 15% doesn’t cut it, folks. Tip at least 20%, maybe closer to 25% and even 30% if the service was very good. If you can’t afford to leave a healthy tip, save your money and eat out less often.
No matter how well-behaved your child is, your table will be messy and harder to clean up. No matter what you do, you’ll still require more of the server. Behave well, teach your children to behave well and always tip a good server very well.
Jenny, were you a server in your former life?
Wow, did you know my mother in a past life? Reading this post brought back just about every early memory I have of dining out with my family. The special drink. The little bits of freedom. How true, HOW TRUE!
The biggest tip here that I use, without fail, is dining early with the kids. I have three, ranging in age from 2 to 5 and it is a rarity and a special treat for us to dine out together. So far, we’ve only taken ourselves to the local pizzaria (which has recently remodeled and expanded their menu, plus we can walk there) and it has been absolutely worth it. This post is going to make me brave – I have been itching to visit another venue that I think our entire family will love. I am going to give it some thought and will do it!
Wow, this reads like a description of going out with my parents. My mom always had crayons, always let us choose whatever we wanted to eat, and took us to nice places because she’d taught us manners. She wasn’t an ogre or an over-ruled monster; she just taught us how to comport ourselves in public. In fact, the only “meltdown” I had as a kid was when she and a friend took me to a Thai restaurant and her friend shared some curry that was too spicy for me.
I really think that, for best manners in a restaurant, numbers 2 and 6 are absolutely essential. My mom started us with tea parties in the afternoon when we were less than 5 years old, and that’s how we learned the manners to be able to go to all sorts of fancy places as young children.
Thank you for this! What a great article. My daughter, who is now almost 12 (gasp!) has been enjoying good food in restaurants since she was small. We have never ordered off the kids menu and she is pretty proud of that. She loves nothing more than to go to a “gourmet” restaurant and order interesting food. I have noticed that the wait staff (and cooks) are often really pleased to serve her and see her enjoyment of the food. We have done everything you suggest , including offering the wine. My own experience growing up and being allowed a sip of wine from an early age meant that going out to get drunk was never something I wanted to do.
I love your posts and will keep reading!
Marleen
These are great tips! We follow most of them already, and have for more than a decade – my nearly 11 year old daughter (I’ll echo Marleen’s “gasp!”) has only rarely ordered off of a child’s menu. She LOVES shrimp, which is rarely found on a child’s menu in edible form. We have found that many family-owned restaurants will make a smaller portioned (and smaller priced) version of an adult meal if you just ask.
My daughter has tasted wines (and beers) and doesn’t like them. On the other hand, my son, who’s 4, enjoys both wines and beers. He is quick to ask for a drink of ours when we eat out – Daddy and I have different tastes when it comes to both wine and beer, so we usually have different drinks – but my son, at 4, knows that they’ll be different and he likes to try both of them. He usually says he likes Mommy’s better. ;o)
One additional benefit to eating out with kids is that they may learn to appreciate what you serve at home. After a medical procedure, as a treat, we let our daughter choose a restaurant and her meal – whatever she wanted. She chose a chain steakhouse, ordered a grain-fed steak, and found that it was fatty and she didn’t like it! And this girl is a self-professed carnivore! She learned a few valuable lessons that night – about the food we carefully choose and prepare at home, about the food mass-prepared in chain restaurants, how much money that cost us (it wasn’t cheap!), and of course I took the opportunity to review with her the benefits of grass-fed vs grain-fed – for us, for the cows, for the earth, for the farmers…
Thanks for sharing your tips!
For the record I completely agree on point 10. My parents drank both beer and wine when I was little and they used to allow me little sips. I hated the wine (and still am not fond of the cheap jug wines, I think it’s the sulfides, but otherwise I LOVE wine) but really liked the beer. So having that in my youth I can tell you that I at least NEVER felt the need to get “smashed” as a teenager. Oh, yay, you have alcohol, woo, we have it in my house too.
This is great. We have been taking our four-year old out to eat at nice places since he was born. I have tried to stay away from kids menus and the like. We’ve been pretty terrified to take him someplace really fancy (we usually gauge by whether or not they have high chairs) but it might be time to try it. I like the idea of eating really early in the evening or at the first seating if things go wrong.
Jenny, I love this! I’m going to call around and see if there’s anywhere in town we can get grasfed meat- I have a really hard time paying a lot for feedlot meat. My daughter is on GAPS and is to the point where she can handle a tiny bit of cross contamination, which is what has prevented us from going out to eat so far. I think it would be good for our children to learn to eat out! And yes, please tip big! I haven’t been a waitress, but I did payroll for some, and they only make a couple dollars an hour, put in long hard hours, and depend on the tips!
This is a great post Jenny. Thanks for sharing these tips!
Very good post…I so enjoy your information…my granddaughter is 10 and she really appreciates good food and has since she was born…she won’t eat just anything and loves to order her own food…which normally chooses wisely.
We started by ordering things from the appetizer menu for her as well…because she likes things that are never offered for children…Thanks again for the wonderful post…
This is a great synopsis of how to handle eating out with small children. My son is 5 also and like you, since the day he was born, we’ve taken him to the nicest/fanciest of restaurants. I guess I wasn’t willing to give up good food just to avoid uncomfortable situations. By starting early and timing things just right, it can actually be pretty enjoyable. Our son loves and appreciates good food. He even asks where everything comes from and how it was raised and prepared. The apple hasn’t fallen far from this tree!
One other tip that we find to be very helpful is to sit down and choose what we want and then either dad or mom head outside with the little one for a little bit of energy burn off for about 10 minutes. This way he’s nice and relaxed and ready to sit and eat. It makes the meal more enjoyable for everyone.
I agree, the kids menu stinks pretty much everywhere. Don’t be shy to suggest changes to the kids menu directly to the owner. I’ve done this in the past and actually saw the menu change to EXACTLY what I suggested. 2 years later it remained, which means others must appreciate it also.
Great topic Jenny!
Sofia
You’re so right – I would love to see your list in a mainstream parenting magazine as opposed to some of the tips they publish!
I remember walking into a fancy Brazilian restaurant when my daughter was about 2 and the hostess said “Um, we don’t have a children’s menu” – I think she fully expected us to turn around and walk out but I just smiled and said “That’s fine, we don’t need one anyway.”
I agree wholeheartedy with your tips, and everyone else’s responses.
An amusing anectode (at least now, now that the trouble has passed…):
My 16 year old daughter recently made some bad decisions about an underage drinking “get together,” (i.e. “it wasn’t a party, Mom!”) but when I asked her if she was also drinking she replied, Mom, you know I don’t even like the taste of beer!
LOL
Some bad decisions, but some good ones too! It’s all a learning experience – - – for both of us!
Yes! I tend to choose restaurants the same way. We eat out less often, perhaps, but we go for quality over quantity.
This reminds me one of my peeves: kids drinking from “kid” cups far too long. I see too many kids over the age of 2 (OK, I’ll stretch that to age 3) drinking from “safe” lidded cups, plastic cups, or worse yet, sippy cups with spill proof seals (especially unnecessary with a kid big/old enough to sit in a real chair).
Give the kid a real glass, fercryinoutloud. Fill it half full, and refill if necessary. Sure, they’ll spill sometimes, esp in the beginning while they are learning to manage it. A glass or two might even break (though not so likely if you choose heavy glass “tumblers”). But that’s how kids learn to manage a real glass filled with liquid, not by preventing spills. It isn’t an age thing – it’s a developmental skill learned from real life experience and that skill “overflows” (pardon the pun) into other areas of life, too. With real glasses are used on a consistent basis at home, spills are far less likely when dining in restaurants.
Lightweight plastic cups tip far easier than glass, anyway, so aside from breakage issues, they don’t teach a child how to manage liquid very well. “Sippy” cups are even worse – they teach a kid little more than than their drink can be dragged all over creation without making a mess. The cups with seals that require a strong suck also teach kids to really suck it down, again, another skill not needed with a real glass, and really not a good habit to start with sugary “empty calorie” beverages like juice.
And yes, I waited tables in a former life, so I do “get it” when servers automatically serve kids beverages in a lidded paper up with a straw. Too many kids, even in grade school, just don’t have a good grasp of how to manage a real glass and pre-empting spills probably seems like a good idea. And it isn’t their job to train kids how to drink. But even my 6th grader is too often still given a “kid cup” in restaurants, and frankly, he gets miffed, rightfully so.
Oh Jenny! I just love your posts. They are breaths of fresh air- full of (what should be) common-sense, balance, truth and just plain goodness. While we do not currently have children, we aspire to parent them in a way that respects and encourages them without our lives and everyone elses revolving around their every whim! Thanks!!!
WOW! What an AMAZING, generous, intelligent, inspiring article! I don’t even have children yet (close!), but this article taught me so much about parenting in general – not just about taking your children out to restaurants.
Absolutely awesome advice, that I could not fault even if I wanted to! ; )
3 cheers for you, Jenny, and for Nourished Kitchen! I truly could not live without either of you!!
I swear you listed all the things my mother when I was growing up. At the age of four we often ate in five star restaurants. I can clearly remember the look of sheer panic on the faces of staff as we would walk in. I can also remember politely arguing that I did not want any of the children’s menu items and would rather have the (insert fancy pants special here). By the age of five I had a clear preference for french food. By six I could tell by taste if food was made from quality ingredients, or if it came from a box.
My husband grew up on cheap chain restaurants. He doesn’t truly enjoy food. He doesn’t appreciate fine dining. Despite this he goes along with my plans to raise Little Man to eat and enjoy restaurants the way I was raised. He’s only a year old, but the chef or owner of every restaurant we go to always comes out to talk to us and complement our toddling foodie.
It seems to me that probably you were either an only child or from a two-child family. Children from small families are more affluent and are exposed to the finer things of life than children from large families. I bet that your husband is from a large family. Children from large families are simply not exposed to fine restaurants and other cultural activities. They are content to lead a rudimentary, almost primitive existence. People from large famlies grow up not used to the finer things of life while people from small families are.
As the mother of an (almost) one year old boy who is a very adventurous eater, I agree with all of the above. One trick I’ve learned is that if we go out to lunch on a weekday, nicer restaurants are often nearly if not completely empty. We sit outside whenever possible, clean up as much of the mess as we can ourselves, and tip at least 25%, more if the staff have been especially welcoming to our little foodie. He especially likes Indian food, and most Indian restaurants have lunch buffets, which allow us to give him a little taste of a dozen different things.
Wow, this is my childhood right here – except for the fruit juice cocktail (my parents were lax on the soda issue when we were out – HFCS is awful for you, but Shirley Temples have a special place in my heart). As a result, my brother and I loved things like shrimp cocktail, Caesar salad, and pate at a young age – and you couldn’t get us to touch Kraft mac and “cheese” or Jello.
I enjoy just about anything now, and I really do think it’s because my parents never treated me as a child when it came to food.
Hi Jenny – I like this post because it so almost perfectly mimics the experiences we have when we dine out. We’ve always been a family that loves to eat out, and when our son (who is now almost 10) was younger, we ate out all the time. Now we eat at home more because I know what’s in the food most restaurants serve. I tend to be much harder to please than my son or husband, and when I’m not around they will go out to places I’d never be caught dead at, much less alive (read=food snob, too). There are a few places we can go and get healthful fare that is local and/or organic too, but of course most restaurants don’t serve that type of food. For many years I have been a person who has hated children’s menus because they largely consist of corndogs, french fries, chicken nuggets, and macaroni and cheese (or some other facsimile). Most of the time we order something from the adult menu and split it with our son, or sometimes we do a family style ordering tactic where we order some appetizers, soups, and salads and share amongst the three of us. Sometimes my son really wants the corn dog (he’s not so much into french fries out, but likes the healthy ones I make at home), or pizza and my husband gives me the look like “are you really going to do this?” Meaning, “let him order whatever he wants”. I know I shouldn’t be such a stickler, but I can’t help it. When our son does order something like that, it’s hard for me not to cringe all the way through dinner. But it can’t be helped sometimes, I suppose.
Our son has always had trouble in restaurants though, and when I say that I mean just being able to sit still long enough to look at the menu, order, eat, and pay the bill. Things are much better now that he’s older. But frequently he would resort to going under the table, laying down and even turning himself upside down in the booth. And he will still do those things now sometimes if the wait becomes too long. He’s always been very active, and he was probably much more that way before age 5 when we had still been eating the Standard American Diet. Even now I can really tell a huge difference in his behavior when he’s eaten real food and when he hasn’t. That’s why I’m so careful to 99 percent of the time feed him the best food I can find, instead of just whatever “comes along”.
Thanks for this post, and all your posts. Your web site is so great!
Thank you for the great article! My husband & I don’t have any young-uns yet (God willing, soon!), but I’m soaking up all the advice and trying to plan ahead.
I come from a big family so we didn’t get to eat out very often, but it was a huge treat when we did.
Well said! Wonderful article. We love to enjoy long delicious leisurely meals with our kiddos. My daughter has become quite the foodie over the past few years. Eating out and enjoying delicious, new kinds of foods teaches children so much about cultures, manners, nutrition…the list goes on! Our last vacation our daughter ate her first plate of oysters, she loved them and wasn’t afraid to dive in. Little brother then thought he’d give them a try, he gobbled them up too!
We often order from the adult menu for her because they don’t offer fish and fresh foods for children. I usually mention it to the waitress just to let them know there are kids out there that want real food! Our DD eats more now and we can barely get away with sharing, or we all leave hungry.
We get a great amount of joy from watching our kids enjoy good food.
This is so amazing! Even though I don’t have kids, I shudder whenever I see children’s menus–nothing green, or even colorful, on them. It’s ironic that some people freak at the thought of giving a child a taste of wine or beer (my parents allowed me sips from a very young age and would even order me a glass when I was a teen) but they literally poison their children with sodas and mac’n'cheese.
Also, the emphasis on eating quality food instead of heading to Olive Garden is so refreshing. Small children can and should be taught that they can participate in their parents’ lives. I love the idea of dining out early with your child. What a great idea! Saving this article for when I have kids.
I found your post on “10 (?) reasons not to eat whole grains” via another blog. I thought it to be both enlightening and enjoyable. I came on over to visit your site and listen to more of what you had to say.
This—-” And as my husband knows only too well, I’d simply rather not eat than eat some mishmash of flavors slopped together from boxes and bags by a pimply teen in the back of a chain restaurant. Yeah, I’m that chick.” —— is a little rude.
I hope that while you are so busy trying to ensure that your child has good manners that you don’t forget your own manners and decency in the process. One should never speak ill of another’s appearance. Usually when a teen suffers from acne it is very embarrassing. I can only assume that being mocked, by an adult no less, makes this situation even more painful. You never know if a teen ( or adult) with acne may visit your site looking for ways to improve his or her overall diet and health in hopes of improving their complexion.
Vivian –
What is a little rude is your presumption that you’ve the right to dictate how I write or don’t write.
Hmm… how interesting… I didn’t find that to be rude at all. She just described a common sight. Pimply teens are commonplace (and yes, it has a lot to do with what they eat). It didn’t seem to me like she was mocking pimply teens or putting them down in any way.
I do find the “pimply” detail to be rude. It’s not nice to point out unflattering details in the appearance of others. Pimples are often a fact for many people at some point in their lives, myself included, and almost always it is an embarrassment for the one suffering with them.
Other than that I found this to be a helpful post. I really enjoy this blog and read it often. Love the honey sesame seed candy!!!
Pimples have nothing to do with what you eat. They are caused by hormonal surges (the deeper pimples) and pores blocked with dead skin cells and sebum that then get infected (the surface kind). You might want to read up a bit on this before asserting your erroneous opinion as fact.
Would you find it unrude to call someone fat? Being fat IS caused by what (or rather how much) you eat.
My daughter has done research on how to improve her acne and had learned that cutting grains and sugar out of her diet may make a big difference. And in fact when she is able to stick to this it makes a big difference and helps keep the acne at bay. Go to Dr. Mercola for information on this.
I only do so when another is using bad manners or other behaviors, much as you presume to dictate how children in restaurants should or shouldn’t behave.Just trying to help another, much as you yourself seem to try to do.
I thought it was an unnecessary detail too *shrug*
I guess the pimply teen in me felt a little bad to be associated with a bad food restaurant, even though I never worked in on. Oh well. I liked the article for the most part though, and I thought it had a good message!
I don’t have kids but I do love taking kids to exciting restaurants and helping them order and try new things!
Great post! We take our 3-year-old to fancy restaurants pretty often. She understands how to behave, I guess because she’s exposed to it often, and because we expect her to behave. And like you said, we make a celebration of it.
I agree about not going to cheap restaurants. I’d rather not go out at all. I prefer to go to quality restaurants less often than go to cheap chain restaurants. There’s no respect for the food or the experience of eating at those places!
I never thought twice about that sentence. Re-reading it now, I see that Jenny was just painting a picture with her writing so you could get the feel for what she was trying to say, and I thought it was a very well-written post, as all her posts are. (Wish I could write half as well!)
That word also struck a cord with me. It didn’t bother me, but I thought the word ‘pimply’ was unneccesary, and quite sterotypical.
Nice article. I am going to comment on the one point I am sure you’re expecting people to give a shout out. Hopefully it is for a reason you are not expecting. I am not sure about #10. I read in a journal and in another study, that the sooner children are introduced to certain items they have an increased affinity to it. Such as alcohol; the sooner they are introduced it and begin drinking it their susceptibility to alcoholism is increased. Same with sugar, et al…I have seen and witnessed families and their relationships with alcohol. Part of the problem too is how we define alcoholism. Most people who are don’t even imagine they are in that category. You don’t have to be a sloppy drunk who can’t control to still have a drinking problem producing multiple heath conditions along with the increased rate of dying brain cells. It is certainly not a risk I am willing to take to introduce my children to unnecessary addictions. I will let them be kids and develop wine as a hobby in their mature years if they decide instead of a lifestyle. I am not going to decide it for them. (Lastly, I do have to agree that it’s always best to refrain from using physical symptoms such as disabilities, diseases, and other conditions when describing people when not pertinent to the topic. Physical characteristics are another thing.)
I have to disagree with you. WHen I eat somewhere nice, I do not care to see or hear kids. I do not care if they are being reasonably quiet. I do not care if they are merely walking around the restaurant, trying out benches, instead of running around. I am paying nearly $15 an hour for a sitter. I find it obnoxious that you believe that merely because the child is yours, the rest of us should welcome it in adult-only spheres.
“If your child wants to engage in a conversation with bartender or ask the restaurant owner a question, let him.”
Bartending is one of the jobs in this world where one would expect to have no interaction with kids whatsoever. I’ve been a bartender. Conversing with a child while it’s parents eat is not in my job description. I love kids, I have 4 of them, but I do strongly believe there are places where adults should get a break from them. It’s only healthy. It’s healthy for kids to get a break from their parents too. Expecting other adults to entertain your child while you eat, in a place that adult very probably was not expecting or desiring to meet kids, is arrogance of the worst parental kind. Trust me, your children are not that interesting to anyone but you.
If seeing my son quietly eating at a fine dining restaurant at five o’clock bothers you, you are the one who should stay home or only enter establishments where proof of age is required. Restaurants are not adult-only spheres.
“I do not care to see or hear kids.”
Imagine if you replaced “kids” with “the elderly” or “ugly people” or “fat people” or any other subset of human beings. You’d be pegged as a discriminating jerk, right? Guess what? It’s the same thing. Kids are human beings and unless there is a law against them being someplace (such as a bar that doesn’t allow anyone under 21) they have as much a right to be out in public as you, or I, or that boorish drunk 30-year-old, or that prickly racist middle-aged gentleman. Sure, parents should take the time to help their kids learn dining out manners (as this post so nicely and helpfully advocates and educates for). But the fact that you don’t like to see kids while you’re out is really your problem. They’re people. Get over it.
This attitude is so strange to me. We eat out all the time and there are always kids in every restaurant at any time of the day. I don’t think one way or another about them being there or not. It is just real life…….normal life to see kids in the world. As long as they are not screaming or crying I don’t give any thought to them being there one way or another. I find it very strange that you zero in on whether kids are around or not…………it is like you are looking for something to be upset about.
I agree with both sides to an extent. I think if the child isn’t bothering anyone else and is sitting quietly in a restaurant, then who cares if they are there? Who cares if you have to look at them while dining? They’re people too.
However, I do agree that a child is not as interesting to anyone else but their parents. I have been on the receiving end of a situation where a parent who has let their child walk up to other adults and just start asking questions/chattering away and it was extremely annoying. A friend and I hadn’t seen each other in forever and met for coffee while our kids were sleeping (and husbands were home watching them) and we were looking forward to catching up. As soon as we sat down, this five year old girl came over to talk to us. Her mother saw that she was over by us but said nothing. She didn’t even ask if the child was bothering us. At first we humoured the girl but after awhile she’d pulled a chair up to our table and was talking to us with adult slang like we were her best girlfriends. She was saying things like “girls, we are just going to have the greatest time!” It got to the point where we couldn’t even have our conversation because this girl kept monopolizing it. Meanwhile, her mom is over with a friend enjoying the childfree evening we were trying to have. I hinted that she should probably get back to her mother and she didn’t take the hint. Finally I picked up her things off our table, walked them over to her mother and politely explained that her daughter was cute but we were on a night without kids and would prefer if she sat by her mother instead of us. After that the little girl bothered the barista and “helped” her mop the floor and hassled other strangers and was acting very strange. She was walking up to complete strangers and telling them they were in her dreams last night. That kind of behavior in children isn’t safe or appropriate. Heck, it’s not appropriate in adults either. Then later on we were finally talking, clearly not wanting to be disturbed, and some other dad kept trying to encourage his 2 year old son to go over and say hello to us. We were like “what the heck, do we look like built in baby sitters?” It was nuts.
That little girl does not sound like a normal 5 year old. She might have been mentally ill.
I agree wth farrar, and I’ve blogged about your post, too.
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/13/itll_mean_a_lot.html
A fine restaurant is not one big experimentation factory for your children.
This is another example of how overindulged America children are, taught that their every word or deed is a little pearl from age one.
I find it weird that almost all your commenters agree with everything you say, save for somebody who thought “pimply” was uncalled for. At least a few people on my site always find something to disagree with on a post. Do you always have yes-men (ladies, really, I guess) on yours?
If taking well behaved children to fine restaurants is an example of overindulgence in American children, why do I see so many well behaved children at fine restaurants when I travel abroad, often at much later hours than suggested here?
Heather: Exactly! See my previous comment. I live abroad (and have for a few years-I have several European friends – if that makes what I say more credible) and attitudes like this are not tolorated and give Americans a bad name.
@Amy and Farrar: My husband and I lived in Portugal and we now live in Germany (we are Americans). Maybe you haven’t gotten “outside” much. I can’t tell you how many times, in Portugal, we have left our kids with sitter because the restaurants don’t open until much later than they do in the US (7:00-7:30) and that is our children’s bed time. We have dined at very nice restaurants with children at every 2nd or 3rd table. The children sit there nicely, despite the increasingly late hour. Parents have been bringing their children out to eat since infancy like this and their appropriate behavior is easily learned. Bring your bad attitude towards children and dining to most places in Europe, and I can assure you that you’ll just make yourself known as a selfish, arrogant American. There are many jokes running around Europe about Americans and it’s people like you who help get them started. What she’s writing about here should a normal in the US. Getting slammed by people like you is really disappointing.
She made a great point when she said that making a very early reservation is best. I doubt you get a sitter and hit up a fancy restaurant at 5:00pm.
I think you both were picking apart every line she wrote. I didn’t read it as saying you should let your kids run everywhere. I read it that if you pick an early time, the restaurant will not usually have many patrons and your child could have a little bit more freedom to roam. Most parents are not so unaware as to let their child chat up a bartender who is obviously very busy.
And what right do you have to tell people children don’t belong at fancy restaurants? This family obviously saves money for special nights like this. They deserve it and children should always be appreciated and loved enough to be included. They talk to their child ahead of time and try to instill appropriate table manners every day at home. His time at a restaurant is EARNED.
For those of you who don’t want to hear or see children, you are the minority and there is something you can do about it. Arrive later in the evening when children are much more scarce, ask for seating away from families, or reserve a private room. Many “fancy” restaurants have those.
In response to this comment:
“A fine restaurant is not one big experimentation factory for your children.”
If you have the freedom to leave your children at home, why is it inherently wrong for another person exercise their right to enjoy every minute they choose with their child and bring them along? Just as you long for time away, other parents may feel that same depth of desire in spending time out of the house WITH their children. Obviously, you are not required to think another person’s children are precious & amazing and spend your time away from your own children visiting with other children. We get that. I have four children of my own and generally choose to not bring them along to fancy restaurants. It is too costly for me simply because there are so many of them. But we do eat well at home, and we also work on good manners during meals even there. If we do take the entire family out to eat, it is not very enjoyable for me because even if they are all being relatively quiet, they generate more noise and movement than adults do. And I feel as though I spent the whole time worrying that they are bothering the other adults around us, even if no one appears to be “put out” by them. Because of this, I cannot really relax and enjoy myself. That is just reality and has become my personal preference. (I think it is unfortunate that I feel this kind of social pressure and it speaks to the intolerance of so many american adults towards children). But don’t you think that if more children were included in adult activities, that more children would know what it means to behave well in public as they see their parents and other adults modeling positive social behavior?
I do disagree with the author on the alcohol issue. You are letting your child think that the law does not apply to them. They are some how “special” beyond the legal drinking age. In your own home, you legally have the right to offer your child alcohol, but this does not extend out of the home.
Everything my children have ever said or done *is* a “pearl”, and I proudly say so without hesitation. Even the not-so-nice stuff. Because it is all teachable moments, which after all, is what my job as a parent is.
It’s laughable to me that anyone who actually read this post could come away from it thinking that the writer is advocating for a children free-for-all in restaurants!
She wrote, “Remember, the restaurant is otherwise quiet and empty the earlier you go, and the staff may have a few moments to spare; do not, however, misunderstand this tip to mean that the staff is responsible for entertaining or babysitting your child.”
The commenters wishing for child-free spaces is another case of children not being percieved as equally human (http://onbradstreet.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-children-are-not-perceived-as.html) and it is about adult privilege and overblown fears and low expectations about how children behave, especially in public. It is unreasonable to think that one is entitled to an adult-only space when attending a nice restaurant. The latter comments smack of pediaphobia in the extreme. Also, Ms. Alkon, I’m baffled about your claim to have blogged about Nourished Kitchen’s post, as all it appears you have done is write a two-sentence snark followed by entire excerpts from NK’s blog? Exactly how have you blogged about this post?
Nourished Kitchen has written a very concise and informative post, the likes of which we see rarely, regarding parenting and being in the world with children. I’m happy to report that we too, as attachment parents, also explored dining out in this way with our now teen children, and it was one of the best things we did as parents.
It’s amusing to me that farrar speaks out against the exact action that would solve his/her issue! People like farrar have observed children who HAVEN’T been given the chance to learn how to behave in a nice restaurant, yet will argue that children shouldn’t be allowed to learn how to behave in a nice restaurant. What they are advocating will and does cause the exact situation they dislike! Ooops.
Very good tips, all things we do and our kids are demonstrating the benefits of it and receive many compliments. One thing we also do is that if any of the kids get too loud, they are immediately escorted out for a non-punitive “change of scenery” before the situation disturbs other diners, and one parent will sit with them outside or in the car for a time “blowing off steam” til they are ready to tolerate the rather difficult requirements of having to sit quietly again. We have always gone out of our way to make sure we don’t bother either the staff or patrons while our kids learn appropriate restaurant behavior. I’m sure it would horrify farrar but we have had great times bringing our kids to formal dining occasions like wedding receptions too!!
“Most parents are not so unaware as to let their child chat up a bartender who is obviously very busy.”
WHo cares if they’re busy, or leaning on the counter doing nothing? You should not assume they WANT to answer a question for your children, period. If they care to, I assure you they will seek your child out. She did not say she let her kids run wild, but she did say she lets them question restaurant employees, and walk around, and try out benches. All of which is distracting to others who came there to not be near kids. I’ve also noticed parents (no doubt myself included) very much overestimate their kids good manners. I reiterate-just because you’ve chosen to keep your child near you literally 24/7 does not mean you get to make other adults be around them as well.
Velcromom, I’m sure it horrifies the people whose wedding it is, unless they INVITED your kids. Some functions are and should be adult-only. Deal with it or stay home.
Given that. I imagine you’d never engage in a conversation with a restaurant owner who visits your table. You’d never ask about the specials, ask the bartender a question, talk to the waiter about the menu. After all, why would you assume they WANT to answer YOUR questions?
I’ve no doubt your children struggle with manners, clearly you don’t allow them much of an opportunity for practice.
I’m sure it horrifies any host when ANYONE shows up who isn’t invited. That isn’t an age issue. Again, if you don’t want to be around children, YOU need to stay at home or only enter establishments that require proof of age. Your problem with well behaved children is your own, not anyone else’s.
Farrar: Generally, we ask the waiter, bartender, etc. if he/she would MIND if our child asked him/her a question. For instance, tonight, my five-year-old asked the waitress for something to drink and then had a short debate as to whether the chef added a new ingredient to their curry dish as it tastes better than the last time she ate it. A very mature question for such a small child. Oh, and our waitress happens to also be a kindergarten teacher during the day and welcomes all questions for young children. You can’t always assume the waitstaff and bartenders are disinterested in other people’s children. We need to teach our children respect and consideration. Bombarding them with questions and being rude is one thing, however, our children are patrons too, patrons the waitstaff is there to serve. The respect goes both ways, no matter the age.
Please stop reading into every comment, looking for a detail that was left out, so you can slam the comment. It’d probably be best if you left this debate. Your comments are weightless and you are only making yourself look bad.
(a) In our family, we do not have the financial resources to go out to restaurants very often at the moment, but I do appreciate the tips. One or two tips may not be my parenting style, but that certainly isn’t to say that they are invalid. Just not my style.
(b) In my opinion, eating a real meal at a real table with real flatware, dishes and glasses at least once a day goes a long way in teaching children how to behave in a dining environment. I do not allow hopping down from the dinner table and running around at home when it is meal time, nor will I allow it anyplace else – restaurant, friend’s home, what have you….if children (or anyone for that matter) eat meals thoughtfully and purposefully on a reasonably regular basis, it isn’t such a challenge when away from home to know the expectations on how to behave well.
(c) I fail to understand why one would need to start an argument on a blog for argument’s sake. Disagree, interject another point of view, whatever – respectfully. But in a post about having a family outing on a blog that is clearly about doing things that are best for one’s family….if you cannot be respectful, well, there is a little red box with an “X” in it in the upper right corner. Just sayin’.
I love, love this post! It is exactly what we do in our family. We don’t eat out very often and when we do we often take our kids with us at 5 o’clock and follow most of NK’s suggestions. We eat at upscale restaurants which use seasonal, local ingredients. We avoid chains and even local “greasy spoon” type restaurants. When we go to more casual restaurants we choose ones with particularly excellent or unique preparations (i.e. pizza and wings cooked in an antique coal fired oven.) Upscale bistro type restaurants are literally the only time my kids get to eat French fries out (we order extra if they are cooked in beef fat or natural lard!) It is a special treat for them and keeps them really happy as long as we have the fries brought to the table after they eat their other food so they don’t ruin their appetites on them.
At upscale restaurants we have actually gotten compliments on our children’s behavior from older adults unaccompanied by kids and were urged to continue bringing them out and introducing them to quality food and dining. Not that our children’s restaurant behavior in such places is always worthy of compliments, so we certainly go out armed with a bag of coloring books and small toys and are not above bribing the kids with extra dessert when necessary.
I used to be hesitant about letting my kids try alcoholic beverages but I recently read about a study that found that kids who try wine as part of a family meal are less likely to abuse alcohol later. Link here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100819112224.htm. Of course, there is also a study that found the opposite! This is just one issue that every parent has to decide what they are comfortable with.
Thanks again, NK, for your thoughtful post about kids and eating out!
I guess, but you don’t live in a big city. Here in LA, there’s no fine dining at 5:30. You’d be laughed at by the parking valets. Also, here, there’s plenty of self-important people who would read your post and interpret it as license to let their toddler strip off the organic cotton diaper and run amok.
My kids are grown up, and one of them was just a monster as a toddler. We just didn’t go out to eat with the kids until she out grew that stage. (My husband’s a chef and I’m in entertainment–it was not only a hardship, it was a career blip.)
Yes, teach them good manners, teach them how taste different foods, blahblahblah. But don’t be astounded and hurt when the host at Nobu isn’t interested in answering your child’s lisping questions about the shrimp.
Huh? I dine at fine restaurants in San Francisco with my kids and can find lots of places to eat at 5:30! That said, I’m certainly not taking them to Restaurant Gary Danko or anyplace of that caliber until they are at least in Middle School and then only if I think they will really appreciate it. But there are plenty of wonderful restaurants in the $18-30 entree range where exceptional chefs cook with seasonal, local ingredients and where I would take my kids without hesitation. I can’t believe that in LA you have nothing in between Nobu and Cheesecake Factory. Next time I am down there visiting my aunt I will research this more!
What a great post. Attachment parenting aside, it is very similar to the approach my husband and I have when it comes to dining with our 4 and 2 year old girls.
One addition, and only 1 other commenter has mentioned it, is that a successful restaurant experience starts at home. And I mean more than a thoughtful conversation about the specialness of eating out. But setting up appropriate manner and acceptable behaviours at any dinner table mean the restaurant isn’t suddenly something new.
For example, if you regularly let your kids get up from the table at home or eat salad with their fingers you can’t suddenly expect them to sit quietly and use and knife and fork just because they are at a restaurant.
Hmm, now I have a hankering for our favourite Greek place. Tasty, and with a dance floor for the wait staff to dance it is quite kid friendly!
For some reason it seems like parents with only children have a much easier time at restaurants. Only children are notorious for being able to act like little adults at times. It’s partly because they have their parents’ undivided attention and partly because they are less in the company of other kids and more in the company of their parents and their parents’ adult friends. Add another kid or two into the mix and you have to add some suggestions in order to minimize squabbling, competition, etc. One child surrounded by adults is relatively easy to keep on best behavior. As soon as the kids outnumber the adults, it becomes a bit more difficult, as adults only have so many hands and so many eyeballs. It’s a little easier if kids are spaced out in age though because then one kid can be fully “trained” on how to eat out before the next one comes along, and peer pressure can work to your advantage. I have a few friends who had no problem getting out and doing adult things with their only child, but as soon as they had 2 or 3 kids just gave up.
For now I only have one child, and we definitely take her everywhere with us. We’ve followed a few of these tips like sitting outside but she’s still a baby so it’s rough trying to teach her any kind of etiquette so far.
What a great list of suggestions!
We, too, enjoy eating good food out, and never stopped when our daughter came along. She snoozed in the sling, discovered her first favorite food – duck liver mousse, and now, at age two, asks the server, herself, for a “tiny spoon” and water. I especially love the concept of respecting your child and trusting that they can learn how to act appropriately, not ordering off the kids’ menu (gross!), and letting them have a special drink – I love the “cocktail” idea! – and a taste of your wine. So many things resonated with me – relaxing, taking your time, arriving early, and seating near the door or outside.
I’ve enjoyed your blog since I found it and have passed it along to friends.
Cheers! To Good Food.
Tiffanie
What a great post! I agree with so much here. Kids’ menus drive me crazy. Kids should eat real food, good food, the food everyone else is eating. I think the most ridiculous advice I’ve heard about taking kids out to eat is – “Make sure they’re not hungry. A hungry child is a difficult child.” What? You’re going out to eat and you don’t want them to be hungry? Crazy.
Great blog.
One idea that my mom had when I was growing up is to find foods that are “fun” to eat, and take a while, even though they don’t have that much food. Growing up in the Pacific Northwest, most of the nice restaurants we went to were seafood restaurants, so one of the foods I loved to order was “steamed clams”. I loved steamed clams, and they take a bit more time than most foods to eat (plus you can use your fingers), so I normally didn’t get bored with them.
One question, though… Have you found that most of these restaurants have high chairs / booster seats available? Have you found any that don’t, and if so, how do you handle that?
We call ahead. If they welcome children, they have the seats available. If they do not to welcome children they do not have the seats available.
Jen as we have eaten out together many times I agree with everything you said!!! Especially eating early and tipping well! The other night Lily started to grab my glass of red wine b/c she thought it was juice. I told her no and that it was wine but she didn’t believe me. I told her to take a small sip and the face she made was priceless!
Be careful suggesting parents allow their children to taste their alcohol – many restaurants do not allow this, no matter what. I’ve seen tables asked to leave for this at a restaurant I worked at – simply because the restaurant can lose their liquor license if they are perceived to be serving to minors. Many undercover policemen and women dine at restaurants to attempt to “catch” them serving minors – when that happens, their license is immediately suspended.
Reserve this for your own home if you wish but don’t jeopardize a business like that. Many restaurants rely on their alcohol sales for their high profit margin, and losing a license can put a restaurant out of business.